I have friends who are Quakers, friends who are Unitarian Universalists, friends who Dialogue in the Bohmian tradition, friends who are Mystics, friends who are Poets, and so many other friends who live lives of wisdom and wonder... this is my account of the meeting with these friends...

Tuesday, March 3, 2009

a "conversation with God"

There's a "conversation with God" that came to me today- born here at Forest Wisdom's blog... (please know, Im both and neither, an atheist and/or a theist- it simply doesnt matter to me- the word "God" is sometimes helpful for a poetic soul to use, and so thats all...)

me: "why do I measure?"

God: "are you saying you think you shouldnt measure?"

me: "no, but Ive been seeing that measurements are always coming up in me- and that they always fall short of the truth"

God: "what is the truth?"

me: "what if I said 'You'?"

God: "thats right- but do you know me?"

me: "no- I doubt you completely"

God: "I wouldnt have it any other way"

me: "I know- I know that about you- and for that, I think youre cool... so, why do I measure?"

God: "Let me cut right to it for you, ok?"

me: "sure, please!"

God: "you measure because Ive allowed you to... its how you know yourself- its what you are... I gave dolphins sonar so that they can know where they are in the ocean, and where others are in relationship to themselves- they send out little "pings" and back comes the signal, and in that way, they get to know where they are at all times- 'there is a ship, there is a whale, there is a school, there is my pod'- this is dolphin-measure... I gave elephants a deep throat so they can rumble across the savannah ... I gave eagles sharp eyes so they can see into the canyons... I gave humans a frontal cortex so they can think into the very depths of their own existence... this is why you measure, so that you know who you are- so that you can know where you are- so that you can know what you are...."

me: "I get that- that makes sense- but the thing is, this can often cause such suffering... when I say "those people over there" - and I see "them" in relation to "my people over here", I see that as my own measurement- and Ive traced all human cruelty to this very thing- if I stopped doing this, would human cruelty go away?"

God: "the measurement in itself is not the problem, it is not the source of human cruelty- as I said, its just a tool that I gave you... the problem comes in that you have identified yourself completely with these measurements of yours - you think you ARE what you measure... and in that, youve forgotten something very important..."

me: "but, identification IS measurement, I can see that so clearly! so I shouldnt measure- if Im helpless to this identification..."

God: "No no... measure all you want- Im telling you there is no problem with it- I will let you do this all day, and it doesnt change anything... the thing is, the identification is a sort of forgetting- you dont seem to realize that with every measurement you separate yourself from me- from what is- from each other... every measurement you make, separates you from the simple FACT that you are not separate- you are One with me already- I am that which is inseparable- and this is what your measurement is bound to disregard- you have no choice in this matter- and this causes you suffering beyond the natural entropy of the body- this is what moves into your psychological, and then you identify with the body- you think "I am this body" and by so doing, you separate yourself again- its all a forgetting that you are not separate... and that forgetting has this aspect of "tearing" - its like tearing a ligament - separating sinew from bone, this forgetting... and this is the pain that you are trying to alleviate - the problem is, you are alleviating it by trying to perfect your measurements! how silly!"

me: "well, why dont you help with this? why do you let this go on?!"

God: "what did I just tell you dummy?! THAT would be trying to perfect another measurement in order to make the pain go away- with that VERY request, you are making ME a SEPARATE thing that can act on a YOU... and I just got done telling you- its not ME that forgets there is no separation between me and you, its YOU that forgets... I dont need to do anything - I am already with you completely... Im not the one making out this measurement- Im not the one separating us- YOU are- your very desire to have the suffering "go away" is self centered- and that is the thing that will bring about the suffering every time- that is what separates... your brain is like an athlete's muscle, and its been sprained from over tens of thousands of years of ab-use... you are just like that comedian who comes to me and says "doctor, it hurts every time I do this (*lifts up arm)" and here Im telling you - then dont DO that!"

me: "wait... so, dont think?... but you just said that I can measure all I want... its the identification thats the problem"

God: "YES- thats what I said... see, when you asked me at the very beginning of our conversation here, 'why do I measure?', you had it already in mind that you thought you had to find a way to stop measuring in order to stop suffering... you didnt see that THAT was a measurement itself... Im telling you now, when you ask 'why do I measure', if you saw that it was ME who was asking that question, and not you- that the PURE curiosity that is there in that question is the VERY same curiosity that is the sun when it comes up in the morning, of the hummingbird when it flits from flower to flower, of the flower itself when it opens to the sun- of the cock that crows- when you see that I AM that curiosity- and that I dont have a preconceived answer in my mind, that Im not trying to change anything- because I already know that I am not separate from you... when you see that- then you will remember... the forgetting will be in abeyance- it will simply fall away... there may be pain- but there will be no suffering... you and I will not be separate- you will not be separate from the sun, or the hummingbird, or the flower, or the crowing cock... you will be those things, when you remember that you are not separate from those things.... but if you TRY to remember 'SO-THAT'- so that you wont suffer any more, then you will find yourself back in the separation, and you will have created the suffering..."

me: "oh god...

I mean, Oh, God... as obscure as you can be sometimes, I think I might see what you are talking about..."

God: "you know what I call this?"

me: "umm...."

God: "let me not keep you hanging, beloved... I call this Love"

me: "I knew that..."

God: "yes... I know you did..."


Val said...

I just read your comment on Forest's blog.

wow. Great stuff.

I wrote a 'label' post yesterday as well and I'd love to post this comment... or if you could post another comment. Would that be alright?

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

Tom (Mystics Meeting) said...

Hi Val, and thank you!
yes, I saw your post as well- Ive read it twice now- and I think there is something here thats "coming" but, not fully here yet- so Im letting it sit some... but youll be the first to know, literally :)

but in the mean time, please do use the words in this post any way you like- they are there to be shared!